John Boy....
You did ask and I did deliver, so what about you???? Your next 
message "To ALL" was to take away the rights of others was it 
not?  I think I'll just fade away into your past and forget you 
ever existed...I can find intellegent life elsewhere....F.G.+

Eagle Eye....
I was replying to your previous messages and was also speaking 
figuratively in those references.  I do not disagree with you at 
all on the need to discuss political issues just the context by 
which some choose to show their ignorance and lack of education 
with the limited vocabulary of 4 letter words.  I would rather 
be respected for my heartfelt thoughts and intellegent 
statements than be thought a fool for using foul language. I 
wasn't going to make a reference to you but on second thought, 
you can have your BUTT FRENCH KISSED back....Oh yes, you did 
make reference to your replies from past postings and I did re-
read them and you didn't ask what I thought you hadn't read. 
Pratice what you preach in communications....
You play search and destroy games and I'll get back to 
life...thanks for the replies...at least you had the guts to 
come out and play for a while...I've got better things to do 
then waste them with you.....F.G.+

Finally NOAH/ RE: Wavelengths...
Thank you for your thoughts...At least there is one amongst you 
who appreciates a wakeup call...Again, I thank you and will pray 
that you find your way through life in peace and may find a way 
to share your passions with others who are willing to 
share...F.G.+

See you all on the other side if you make it.......F.G.+

Wow, Noah, you know how to deliver an efficient spanking! :)

As a Christian, I have become wary of preachers whose best/only 
talent is to talk.  I should probably apologize to F. Guido, 
because I did lash out pretty harshly at the guy.  He came in 
admonishing all of us to get our butts off the message board and 
go do something productive to help the world.  And he comes back 
repeatedly to deliver the same message without following his own 
admonishments, apparently.  I will not toot my own horn and give 
my resume to justify my life; that is between me and my Father.  
I try to make my life an example to glorify God, not convince 
others that they should believe as I do.  I have a couple of 
people in my life who are living examples of the word of Christ, 
who live it rather than speak it.  This is what I admire most 
and is what gives me more faith than listening to a preacher in 
church every day of my life.

Thank you for your loving, caring spirit, Noah.  It is always 
appreciated by this reader.  You are an inspiration to me.

I know that Shalom means peace, akin to both Palestinians and 
Jews(basically the Middle Eastern People)...

But the fact is that though this word, Shalom that is, is so 
important, even cliched, yet the Palestinians and the Jews have 
never found peace.

For they have not found the Prince and King of peace who gives 
to all whom he wills.


And that is my LORD JESUS CHRIST.

You said --> "John Boy....  You did ask and I did deliver, so 
what about you???? Your next message "To ALL" was to take away 
the rights of others was it not?  I think I'll just fade away 
into your past and forget you ever existed...I can find 
intellegent life elsewhere....F.G.+

********

Firstly, I have NO clue what you are referring to.

Secondly, a priest is a professional listener.  That is your 
calling.  If you listened, you would know I made NO such claim.

You totally failed to answer the question in my first reply to 
you.  I let it go because I thought maybe you took on to much in 
one communication attempt.  I simply replied: "Thanks Dad."

And third and most important.  You signed off above to me 
with: "I think I'll just fade away into your past and forget you 
ever existed...I can find intellegent life elsewhere...."

A man of the cloth 'DOES NOT' address people in such a manner, 
whether it be justified or not.  Which obviously was not.  But 
whether or not..  giving people don't communicate like that.  A 
man as yourself should be above others and should NEVER resort 
to such behavior.

If I can share any of my wisdom with you, it would be the three 
L's.  LISTEN, LISTEN, & LISTEN.

You said --> "You did ask and I did deliver, so what about 
you????"

As for myself, I DO NOT speak of my works.  I seek not exposure 
for personal self-worth enhancement or from others.  My earlier 
inquiry to you was an attempt to allow you to show others how to 
make a contribution.  I was in no way seeking a response of what 
you have done, or plan to do, only what others could do.  I'm 
still waiting.

Have a good day.

John
E pluribus unum

please reread prior to responding, thnxs

What is Afghanistans official or unofficial policy regarding
Terrorism????  Do they have a policy?????? What does it state????
Do they (the afghan gov't) encourage or discourage terrorism?

Some sentence of yours:
"I'm glad you're telling them the truth because hey 
need to know it real bad." 
"And oi - Italian Guy, yeah you!  You don't know me yet but you 
can fuck right off you little piecce of greasy shit!"

Likely you are Walter the fool.
Anyway I won't demean myself by answering your post.

Kane, as you know, a war is currently being fought ,over in 
Afghanistan,  not only  to destroy bin Laden and his al 
Qaeda companions but also to unseat the so called Taliban 
government. The same government that protected and 
hosted these criminals.

Shortly, a meeting will be organised in Bonn (former capital 
of the former West-Germany) to get as many parties 
together that represent the people and tribes of Afghanistan.

Welcome to this board,

From Europe, this was Radio Europe...

We can but wait what form of government will be the result 
of  talks between these parties, but clearly, most of them are 
against terrorism. Certainly if it  is conducted by strangers, 
like Arabs and Pakistani who have been using their county 
as a base for their crimes.

Kane, as you know, a war is currently being fought ,over in 
Afghanistan,  not only  to destroy bin Laden and his al 
Qaeda companions but also to unseat the so called Taliban 
government. The same government that protected and 
hosted these criminals.

Shortly, a meeting will be organised in Bonn (former capital 
of the former West-Germany) to get as many parties 
together that represent the people and tribes of Afghanistan.

We can but wait what form of government will be the result 
of  talks between these parties, but clearly, most of them are 
against terrorism. Certainly if it  is conducted by strangers, 
like Arabs and Pakistani who have been using their county 
as a base for their crimes.

Welcome to this board,

From Europe, this was Radio Europe...

The Character of God in Bible and Qur'an

A Study In Contrasts 

These are the notes of the Christian speaker from a 
Muslim-Christian dialog end of 1998
The Muslim speaker's notes have not been made available 
to us 

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen! I think tonight we are 
witnessing a very exciting event, since it is not very often that 
Muslims and Christians get together to listen to each other. 
And I would like to put the emphasis tonight on truly 
listening to each other. 

I have not come here with my boxing gloves. I have not come 
here to score points or win an intellectual battle. I am sure 
most of the Christians and the Muslims out in the audience 
have already raised their defensive walls quite high and are 
ready for a good fight on the stage. Well, I would like to ask 
everyone to make a conscious attempt to lower their walls 
and try to listen empathetically to the position of the other 
side. After 1400 years of debates and polemical exchanges 
between Muslims and Christians, a deep gulf of 
misunderstanding still separates the two communities of 
faith. 

Just to cite one example, a great contemporary Muslim 
writer, Shabbir Akhtar, can still say, 


"Most Muslims, including educated ones, know next to 
nothing about Christology. Few Muslims can distinguish 
clearly between the view that a man claims to be divine - a 
blasphemy - and the entirely different view according to 
which God volunteers to become human - the orthodox 
Christian conviction. And both of these views are routinely 
confused with the heretical doctrine that God `adopted' a 
son... A Muslim cannot reasonably claim to be seriously 
engaged in dialogue with Christians unless he can 
possess a thorough knowledge of the Christian faith..."[1] 

Of course, one can put the same charge towards Christians 
and their ignorance of the Islamic faith and the many 
negative stereo-typed images that Christians have 
developed against Muslims. 

So, once again, my request is that tonight we would all 
make an extra effort to really listen and thus take one step 
closer towards a mutual understanding of each other's 
position. 

Having said that, I must note that I am not advocating that 
we ought to brush aside the deep and genuine differences 
that divide Islam and Christianity. In fact, in my lecture 
tonight, I would like to highlight five points of tension that I 
notice as a Christian when I compare the doctrine of God as 
it is developed in the Christian faith with the view of God 
expounded by the Qur'an and historic, orthodox Islamic 
theology. 

I would like to start with an analogy. I am not very musically 
minded, but I can imagine that if one immerses himself or 
herself in the musical style of a great composer, one can tell 
which pieces belong to the genuine composition of this 
great musician and which pieces are not genuine. One 
begins to develop a "feel" for what a composer sounds like. 
I guess that same thing can be true of great painters or the 
great poets. Some of you might know the "feel" of the poetry 
of Hafiz or Rumi so well, that you can immediately tell if a 
piece of poetry is written by them or not. 

In a same way, when I pay close attention to the character of 
God portrayed for us through the biblical narratives and then 
I compare it with the Qur'an, I get the strong sense that the 
Qur'an plays a different tune, that it does not exactly match 
the God of the Bible, even though the Qur'an claims to be 
from the same God. 

This is not an exhaustive list, but I would like to bring to your 
attention, five areas of disagreement between these two 
portraits of God. These areas concern the issues of THE 
INTIMCAY OF GOD (with his people), THE SUFFERING OF 
GOD, THE LOVE OF GOD, THE KNOWABILITY OF GOD (the 
question regarding whether we can know the character of 
God, what God is like), and THE HOLINESS OF GOD. 

The reason that I would like to focus on these fundamental 
characteristics is that they provide the foundational basis for 
such distinctive Christian concepts as the doctrine of the 
Trinity, the incarnation and the atonement. Oftentimes, 
Muslims and Christians argue ad infinitum about these 
specific Christian doctrines and don't come to any better 
understanding of each other, because they have not realized 
that their disagreement about the nature of God is even 
more foundational than they had thought. There is no use 
talking about more advanced concepts, if we don't even 
have the basics down, no use arguing about the complex 
formulas of advanced calculus, if we have not understood 
the simple principles of arithmetic. 

So, let me now elaborate on what I mean by these areas of 
disagreement that I have highlighted. 

I. The Intimacy of God 

A.   The dominant Qur'anic picture is that of a master and 
servant. Even though there is a Qur'anic verse that claims 
that God is closer to the people than their own jugular 
vein,[2] nevertheless, the idea of God's intimacy with his 
people is not very much developed in the Qur'an or in 
orthodox Islamic theology. In fact, sura 50:16, is set in the 
context of the angels recording man's deeds for the day of 
judgment. God is constantly referred to as a Sovereign 
Master (although he is Rahman and Rahim). He is gracious 
and is the source of all the bounties of the earth, but overall 
the image is that he is far above and beyond the struggles 
and the tragedies in the human realm. 

Once again, Shabbir Akhtar gives us the following insightful 
comments: 


Visitors to the famous Cordoba mosque in Spain cannot fail 
to read the ubiquitous inscription, `He is the dominant 
(Huwal-ghalib)'. What a revealing index to the Muslim 
mind![3] 

Furthermore, 


Muslims do not see God as their father or, equivalently, 
themselves as the children of God. Men are servants of a 
just master; they cannot, in orthodox Islam, typically attain 
any greater degree of intimacy with their creator.[4] 

Kenneth Cragg, in his classic book, The Call of the Minaret, 
points to the same basic insight. After briefly reviewing the 
99 most beautiful names of God (Asma' al-Husna) in the 
Qur'an, he observes, 


This eternal and all-encompassing God is described as 
"the Creator," "the Fashioner," "the Life-Giver," "the Provider," 
"the Opener," "the Bestower," "the Prevailer." God brings to 
life and brings to death, is "the Reckoner" and "the 
Recorder," "the King of Kingship" and "the Lord of the 
Worlds." It is repeatedly declared in the Qur'an that there is 
no strength and no power save in God, who "is over all 
things supreme." ... 

The relative frequency with which the different names occur 
is a matter of deep interest. Terms, or their corresponding 
verbs, that have to do with strength, majesty, greatness are 
most prominent.[5] 

B.   Of course, the Bible also presents us with the picture of 
a Sovereign God who is the infinite one and the creator of 
the universe. However, the Biblical faith also describes 
God's relationship with his people in many tender 
passages in which God is portrayed as a father who 
teaches his child to walk (Deut. 1:31, Hosea 11:1-4),[6] a 
shepherd who carries his lamb in his arms (Isa. 40:11),[7] a 
lover who woos his beloved, and even a husband who 
longs for his unfaithful wife to return (Jer. 3:1,12,14).[8] 

We are confronted with a God who dwells in the midst of his 
people and desires to have an intimate relationship with 
them. The book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, 
gives us a glimpse of the fulfillment of God's relationship 
with his people, when the author states, 


And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the 
dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They 
will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be 
their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will 
be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old 
order of things has passed away." [Rev. 21:3-4] 

  

II. The Suffering of God 

A.   The God of the Qur'an shows his mercy to humankind by 
sending prophets to guide the people to the straight path. 
God sends prophets to various people groups but judges 
the disobedient nations (oftentimes by destroying them) 
when they don't listen to God's prophets (see the sura of the 
poets, al-Shuara, as one example of this prominent Qur'anic 
theme). God's dealings with people are reported in a very 
matter of fact way. To cite one example, I would like to focus 
your attention on the stories of Noah. The Qur'anic 
passages which have more of an extended treatment of 
Noah are found in sura 7:59-64; 11:25-49; 23:23-30; 
26:105-122; 37:75-82; 54:9-15; and sura 71:1-28 which is 
the sura of Nuh. In all these passages, Noah warns his 
people, they disbelieve in his message and God sends the 
flood to destroy the unbelievers. Period. We are not told 
anything about how any of this, whether the peoples' 
sinfulness or the judgment of God, affects God himself. 

B.   The Bible on the other hand presents us with a God who 
suffers because of his disobedient people. He is grieved, 
he is angered. The prophets of Israel reveal him as a 
wounded lover, a husband who feels the pain of betrayal 
because of his unfaithful wife, a father whose heart is 
broken because of his rebellious children. I will get back to 
these images, but to continue our example of Noah, let's 
begin by looking at Gen. 6:5-7 : 


The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth 
had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his 
heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that 
he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with 
pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have 
created, from the face of the earth - men and animals, and 
creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air - 
for I am grieved that I have made them." 

Please note the emphasis of the text on the suffering of God 
in that in the space of two verses, three times we are 
informed that God was grieved, filled with pain and grieved. 
The significance of this repetition is pointed out by the 
eminent German Old Testament scholar, Claus 
Westermann, who writes, "Yahweh's regret is so important 
for the [writer] that he puts it before the decision to destroy 
and repeats it again after it. He considered it decisive for the 
understanding of the event which these verses introduce."[9] 
As Walter Brueggemann, a prominent American OT scholar 
puts it, "The narrative is not about the anger of God but 
about the grief of God."[10] 

Due to the shortness of time, let me draw your attention to 
only one more passage in the OT. The prophet Hosea, 
describes the intimacy of God's relationship with Israel in 
terms of the intimacy of a husband and wife and a father 
and child. But God brings a charge against Israel for being 
an unfaithful wife, by going after idols, and a rebellious child. 
Commenting on the imageries of Hosea, one of the most 
profound Jewish thinkers of the 20th century, Abraham 
Heschel, writes, "Hosea has given us a supreme 
expression of the vision of the subjective God so typical for 
prophetic awareness." He continues: 


God is conceived, not as a self-detached Ruler, but as the 
sensitive Consort to Whom deception comes and Who 
nevertheless goes on pleading for loyalty, uttering a longing 
for a reunion, a passionate desire for reconciliation.... 
Hosea is able to express as no other prophet the love of 
God for Israel in its most varied forms - as compassion, as 
a mother's tenderness, as love between husband and 
wife.[11] 

And a Christian commentator, Terrence Fretheim, describes 
the language of Hosea in this way, 


The image here, obviously, is not that of some heavenly 
General Patton having difficulty tolerating acts of 
insubordination. Rather, it is the image of the long-suffering 
parent and, given the roles in child rearing in Israel, it is 
probably more the image of mother than father. God is 
pictured as one in great anguish over what the children have 
done, but her love is such that she cannot let go. [12] 

Fretheim beautifully summarizes the impact of these 
various images, 


God has been rejected both as parent and as husband! 
God is like a person who has been rejected not only by his 
spouse but by his children as well. God suffers the effects of 
the broken relationship at multiple levels of intimacy. The 
wounds of God are manifold.[13] 

It should be noted that this divine suffering is not because 
God is weak, but because he is love and one cannot truly 
love without opening oneself up to risking the possibility of 
rejection and the pain which results from it. 

  

III. The Love of God 

A.   Much ink has been shed on this issue, portraying Islam 
as having an unloving God. That is not true, but 
nevertheless, the Qur'anic picture is quite different. God 
loves the good, not the unlovely and the sinner. 

That God does not love the sinner is abundantly clear in the 
Quran. Note these key verses from the Quran: 


"Allah loves not transgressors" (2:190); 

"He loves not creatures ungrateful or wicked" (2:276); 

"Say: 'Obey Allah and His Apostle;' but if they turn back Allah 
loves not those who reject Faith." (3:32); 

"Allah loves not those who do wrong" (3:57, 140); 

"Allah loves not the arrogant, the vainglorious" (4:36). 

"Say, if ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love and forgive 
you your sins." (3:31) 

The Quran is littered with dozens of verses like this. It is a 
fact, nowhere in the Quran is God ever reported to love 
someone who does not love Him first, nor is God's love ever 
used as the central motivating factor to draw someone 
close to Him. 

B.   In contrast, both the Old and New Testaments record 
that God loves everyone regardless of their sin. In the Bible, 
we see God as not only the initiator of love but as one who 
loves those who are his enemies. 


"The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, 
because you were more in number than any people; for you 
[were] the fewest of all people...." (Deut. 7:7) 

In the New Testament we see that God's love for sinful man 
is given as the primary reason He sent Jesus Christ. 


"For God so loved the world He gave His One and Only 
Son.... (John 3:16). Also, "This is love, not that we loved God, 
but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation 
for our sins. " (I John 4:10) And, "We love, because He first 
loved us." (I John 4:19) 

C.   The concept of Grace is radically different in the two 
religions! 

  

IV. The Knowability of God 

A.   This point becomes a bit heavy on the philosophical 
side, but I would appreciate your patience here, because it 
has profound practical ramifications. Despite all the names 
of God in the Qur'an, in orthodox Islam we confront a God 
who is basically unknowable. These names do not tell us 
anything about what God is like but only how God has willed 
to act. God's actions do not reflect God's nature. 

Al-Ghazali, the most prominent theologian in the history of 
Islam, went so far as to say: 


"The end result of the knowledge of the `arifin is their 
inability to know Him, and their knowledge is, in truth, that 
they do not know Him and that it is absolutely impossible for 
them to know Him."[14] 

Fadlou Shehadi, a contemporary scholar of Al-Ghazali, after 
analyzing Al-Ghazali's arguments about the transcendence 
of God, concludes, 


From all the foregoing, one important consequence has to 
be drawn. 

God is Utterly Unknowable 

If God is a unique kind of being unlike any other being in any 
respect, more specifically, unlike anything known to man, it 
would have to follow by Ghazali's own principles that God is 
utterly unknowable. For, according to Ghazali, things are 
known by their likenesses, and what is utterly unlike what is 
known to man cannot be known. Furthermore, God would 
have to be unknowable, completely unknowable, not only to 
'the man in the street', but to prophets and mystics as well. 
This is a conclusion that Ghazali states very explicitly and 
not infrequently. It is also a view that is often stated 
independently of its logical relation to God's utter 
uniqueness.[15] 

Another contemporary scholar of Islam, Isma`il al-Faruqi 
expresses the mainstream Islamic thinking on the inability 
of humans to know God, when he writes: 


He [God] does not reveal Himself to anyone in any way. God 
reveals only His will. Remember one of the prophets asked 
God to reveal Himself and God told him, "No, it is not 
possible for Me to reveal Myself to anyone. "...This is God's 
will and that is all we have, and we have it in perfection in 
the Qur'an. But Islam does not equate the Qur'an with the 
nature or essence of God. It is the Word of God, the 
Commandment of God, the Will of God. But God does not 
reveal Himself to anyone. Christians talk about the 
revelation of God Himself - by God of God - but that is the 
great difference between Christianity and Islam. God is 
transcendent, and once you talk about self-revelation you 
have hierophancy and immanence, and then the 
transcendence of God is compromised. You may not have 
complete transcendence and self-revelation at the same 
time.[16] 

Shabbir Akhtar, again: 


The Koran, unlike the Gospel, never comments on the 
essence of Allah. 'Allah is wise' or 'Allah is loving' may be 
pieces of revealed information but, in contrast to Christianity, 
Muslims are not enticed to claim that 'Allah is Love' or 'Allah 
is Wisdom'. Only adjectival descriptions are attributed to the 
divine being and these merely as they bear on the revelation 
of God's will for man. The rest remains mysterious.[17] 

Kenneth Cragg: 


"[all the attributes] are to be understood finally as 
characteristics of the divine will rather than laws of the divine 
nature. Action, that is arising from such descriptives may be 
expected, but not as a matter of necessity. What gives unity 
to all God's dealings is that God wills them all. He as Willer 
may be recognized from time to time by means of the 
descriptions given. But God does not essentially conform to 
any of them. The act of the divine will may be identified in 
this or that quality; the will itself is inscrutable. One may not, 
therefore, say that God is necessarily loving, holy, righteous, 
clement, or relenting, in every and all relationships. 

It is this fact that explains the antithesis in certain of the 
Names. Such antithesis would not be theologically 
predicable if either element within it were essential to God's 
nature. Because they are not, God's action may 
demonstrate each element in differing relations. The 
antithesis is dogmatically resolved in the realm of will, in 
that God wills both - in every other sense and realm, 
antithesis remains. But the problem has no anguish and is, 
indeed, inscrutable, given the conviction of the divine will as 
an ultimate beyond which neither reason nor revelation go. 
So God is "the One who leads astray," as well as "the One 
who guides." God is "the One who brings damage," as also 
does Satan. God is described also by terms such as "the 
Bringer-down," "the Compeller" or "Tyrant," "the Haughty" - 
all of which, when humanly used, have an evil sense. In the 
unity of the single will, however, these descriptions coexist 
with those that relate to mercy, compassion, and glory."[18] 

B.   The biblical emphasis is that God has revealed himself 
and our highest calling is to know God and be in intimate 
relationship with him (e.g., Jer. 9:23-24; Matt. 11:27; Jn. 
1:18; Jn. 17:3; II Cor. 4:6). 



      This is what the LORD says: 
      "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom 
       or the strong man boast of his strength 
       or the rich man boast of his riches,
      but let him who boasts boast about this: 
       that he understands and knows me,
       that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, 
       justice and righteousness on earth, 
       for in these I delight," declares the LORD. [Jer. 9:23-24]

      All things have been committed to me by my Father. 
      No one knows the Son except the Father, 
      and no one knows the Father except the Son 
      and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." [Mt. 
11:27]

      No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, 
      who is at the Father's side, has made him known. [John 
1:18]

      Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, 
      the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have 
sent. 
                                              [John 17:3]

      For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," 
      made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light 
      of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 
                                           [II Cor. 4:6]


God is as God has acted! In the Christian faith the actions of 
God in the history of redemption provide the basis for the 
Christian doctrine of the Trinity. God has revealed himself in 
the history of redemption by showing himself to be our 
Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier. We see a God who is not 
only above us as our heavenly Father, but with us in Christ 
(Immanuel) and in us through the Holy Spirit. 

  

V. The Holiness of God 

A.   Even though Muslims often give the impression that 
Islam presents a loftier picture of God's forgiveness, 
because God just forgives when people repent and does 
not need any bloody sacrifices to atone for people's sin, the 
Qur'an is at odds with the biblical emphasis on God's 
holiness and his requirement for sacrifices. 

B.   As a Christian, I find it incredible that the adjective Holy 
(Quddus) is only used twice of God in the Qur'an. See 
Leviticus as the heart of the Torah. This is the basis for the 
heart of the Christian view of atonement. Guthrie explains 
the need for the atonement such: 


Costly Love 

If God already loves and forgives us, why atonement at all? 
Why did Jesus have to die to reconcile us to God? Why did 
not God just say, "I forgive you," and let it go at that? 

We can catch a glimpse of the answer with an analogy in 
human relationships. Suppose that I have done something 
that betrays a friendship and hurts a friend. Suppose that I 
go to her to tell her how sorry I am and how bad I feel about 
it, and she says to me, "That's OK. It doesn't make any 
difference. Forget it." Has she forgiven me? What she has 
really said is, "I don't care enough about you to be bothered 
by anything you say or do. You are not that important to me." 
She also leaves me alone with the pain of my guilt, refusing 
to help me deal with it, put it behind me, and make a fresh 
beginning with her. 

Good-natured indulgence and casual acceptance are not 
forgiveness and love but an expression of indifference and 
sometimes hostility. Real love and forgiveness mean caring 
enough to be hurt, caring enough to put ourselves in others' 
shoes and sharing their guilt as if it were our own. Real love 
and forgiveness are costly - not in the sense that the guilty 
party must squeeze them out of the injured party but in the 
sense that the injured party genuinely sympathizes with the 
guilty and shares his or her pain. 

Why did Jesus have to die? Why atonement? Because God 
cares for us too much to dismiss our sin and guilt with a 
flippant "It doesn't matter." Because words were not enough: 
action was necessary to prove that God's love and 
forgiveness are genuine. Because God wanted to stand 
with us in the loneliness and alienation we bring on 
ourselves when we separate ourselves from God and other 
people. Because it is just when God comes to our side in 
our loneliness, alienation, and guilt that they are overcome. 
In the cross God says to us, "Yes, it is true. You have hurt 
and offended me. But I still love you. Therefore I will make 
your guilt and its consequences my own. I will suffer with 
you - for you - to make things right between us again."[19] 

  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes: 

[1]  Shabbir Akhtar, A Faith For All Seasons, Chicago, Ivan R. 
Dee Publisher, 1990, p. 182. 
[2]  It was We Who created man, and We know what dark 
suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to 
him than (his) jugular vein. [Q. 50:16] (also see sura 2:186; 
34:50; 56:85; 57:4 on "nearness"). 

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed 
close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when 
he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, 
and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. [Q. 
2:186] 

Say: "If I am astray, I only stray to the loss of my own soul: 
but if I receive guidance, it is because of the inspiration of 
my Lord to me: it is He Who hears all things, and is (ever) 
near." [Q. 34:50] 

But We are nearer to him than ye, and yet see not,- [Q. 
56:85] 

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, 
and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of 
Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what 
comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and 
what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye 
may be. And God sees well all that ye do. [Q. 57:4] 
[3]  Akhtar, op. cit., p. 129. 
[4]  Ibid., p. 180. 
[5]  Kenneth Cragg, The Call of the Minaret, 2nd ed., New 
York, Orbis Books, 1992, p. 35. 
[6] 

      There you saw how the LORD your God carried you, 
     as a father carries his son, all the way you went 
     until you reached this place.       [Deut. 1:31]

     "When Israel was a child, I loved him, 
         and out of Egypt I called my son.
      But the more I called Israel, 
         the further they went from me. 
         They sacrificed to the Baals 
         and they burned incense to images. 
      It was I who taught Ephraim to walk, 
         taking them by the arms; 
         but they did not realize it was I 
            who healed them. 
      I led them with cords of human kindness, 
         with ties of love; 
      I lifted the yoke from their neck 
        and bent down to feed them. [Hosea 11:1-4]


[7] 

       He tends his flock like a shepherd: 
         He gathers the lambs in his arms 
         and carries them close to his heart; 
      he gently leads those that have young. [Isaiah 40:11]


[8] 

       "If a man divorces his wife 
         and she leaves him and marries another man,
         should he return to her again? 
       Would not the land be completely defiled?
       But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers - 
         would you now return to me?" declares the LORD.

       Go, proclaim this message toward the north: 
       "`Return, faithless Israel,' declares the LORD, 
       `I will frown on you no longer, for I am merciful,'
       declares the LORD, `I will not be angry forever. 

       "Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, 
          "for I am your husband. 
       I will choose you -  one from a town and two from a clan 
- 
         and bring you to Zion.  [Jeremiah 3:1,12,14]


[9]  Claus Westermann, Genesis 1-11: A Commentary, 
Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1984, p. 407. 
[10]  Walter Brueggemann, "A Shape for Old Testament 
Theology," in The Flowering of Old Testament Theology, 
Ollenburger, Martens, Hasel, eds., Winoma Lake: 
Eisenbrauns, 1992, p. 418. 
[11]  Abraham Heschel, The Prophets, New York, The 
Jewish Publication Society of America, 1962, pp. 48-49. 
[12]  Terrence Fretheim, The Suffering of God, Philadelphia, 
Fortress Press, 1984, p. 120. 
[13]  Ibid., p. 116. 
[14]  Fadlou Shehadi, Ghazali's Unique Unknowable God, 
Leiden, E.J. Brill, 1964, p. 37. The `arifin, literally "the 
knowers", used by mystics in the sense of "gnostics". 
[15]  Ibid., pp. 21-22. Later on p. 48, he also states: 

Thus the uncompromising character of Ghazali's 
agnosticism follows logically from his uncompromising 
stand on the utter difference of God's nature. 

[16]  al-Faruqi, Christian Mission and Islamic Da`wah: 
Proceedings of the Chamb sy Dialogue Consultation [held 
1976 in Chamb sy, Switzerland], (Leicester: The Islamic 
Foundation, 1982), pp. 47-48 
[17]  Akhtar, op. cit., pp. 180-181. 
[18]  Cragg, op. cit., p. 36-37. 
[19]  Guthrie, Christian Doctrine, Revised Edition, 
Westminster/John Knox Press, 1994, p. 260

Do you sense any change on this board since my arrival? The 
questions sounds, in a way, rather egotistical (not to mention 
out of the blue), but please believe me, it's not meant to be. 
I, as you yourself stated from your personal point of view, 
simply want to be 'one' that contributes to the 'whole'. My wish 
was never to become the 'whole' as it were. I would NEVER want 
to make it into something that I wanted it to be. What I'm 
trying to say is that I don't want to stifle the opinions of 
others simply because my approach or main reason for being on 
the board is different to theirs. Again, from your perspective, 
speaking for yourself, do you feel that's so?

If I was curtailing the way those here would normally have 
expressed themselves before my arrival, I would in those 
circumstances rather leave the board if I knew that to be the 
case.

Please get back to me on this one.

I just wanted to say Thank You for your posts. I look forward to 
them each and everyday,Before sept 11th I have to be honest I 
didn't know much about what was going on in the middle east but 
have now been researching as much as I can and wanted to let you 
know that your posts have really helped....Thanks

Well sir ..... I wish you'd get over the "I think Im intruding 
or impeding" mindset. :-) 

As far as Im concerned I look forward to getting your views and 
reading your wit filled posts.

If your concerned about the approach / tact myself and others 
would take or are taking to one UK Vomit ... due to your 
presence and our wishes not upset or offend reasonable Brits 
with an IQ over 5 [unlike our boy fool UK Vomit] - no worries.

I dont know what else to tell ya ... Im gonna do what I wanna do 
regardless of who's lurking or otherwise - I would hope you 
would do the same.  I have no expectations that you would tailor 
your thoughts or rhetoric just to suit any of us Yanks.

It is what it is brother ... bring it.

Looking forward to your next contribution .... and hoping you 
can bring a little UK local knowledge to bear on that shit for 
brains puke UK Vomit.

So .... what does the term Red Neck mean to the avg euro?

I find it rather odd that Uk Voices and Walter have opted to 
toss about the term, to describe someone residing in one of the 
worlds more metro areas.

Hey all......how's t going?

From what everyone has said....i can sum it all up into 6 
words......

 BLOW THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS TO HELL!!!

thx, 

Lennon

http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?
in_review_id=477760&in_review_text_id=433112

Uk Vomit / Waldo .... taking a flight any time soon?  Please be 
sure to be a wise ass ok?

I came to find this this site, among others, searching for
views reguarding the 911 attacks from something other than
an American point of view. You provide this to all us Yanks.
 UK Voices is no way British. I've worked with and partied with
quite a few Brits and he is not. My first thought was voices 
hmmmmm, not singular but plural as in multiple, as in 
personalities, as in old Walter having a battle with new Walter
internally. Who knows? Who cares?
 You just keep up your excellent posts, we all like your style!

11/26/2001 :  Battle Over Saddam? 

As Washington mulls how to handle Iraq, get ready for 
 coercive diplomacy  and a push for weapons inspectors.
As George W. Bush toughens up his rhetoric in the war on 
terror, Iraq has resurfaced on the media s next-to-be-hit list. 
But well-placed U.S. officials tell NEWSWEEK that Saddam 
Hussein is not likely to feel the full wrath of America s 
military power any time soon. More likely to be targeted next 
in the terror campaign are facilities in Somalia, or even the 
Philippines. The Navy has been running reconnaissance 
flights over Somalia, where it is believed Al Qaeda may have 
at least one training camp. And the United States already 
has a handful of Special Forces in the Philippines that are 
attempting to help President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo s 
government fight Al Qaeda-backed insurgency there. 

By John Barry
Source:NEWSWEEK INTERNATIONAL
==============================
==============================

NewsFromIran // source:IranMojahedin
November 26, 2001

Two members of the Dutch Parliament published an article 
in the NRC Handles Blad in which they called on the 
international coalition against terrorism to attack the 
countries which harbor terrorists and terrorist organizations. 
They said the Iranian regime was one of the governments 
which has a record of engagement in terrorist operations.
Dutch representatives Vilders and Visaglass reiterated that 
so long as West does not have the courage of openly 
questioning these governments over their unacceptable 
behavior, terrorism and extremism would not be defeated.
=======================================
=======================================

The Iraqi Television broadcast on Saturday night the 
confessions of six terrorists dispatched to Iraq by the Iranian 
regime to plant bombs in busy districts of Baghdad and 
carry out a terrorist attack on one of the bases of the 
Mojahedin. The mercenary agents admitted that they had 
received their instructions from the Iranian Intelligence 
Ministry and sent to Iraq after paying them some money.
One of the agents by the name of Mahmoud Ahmad Aziz, a 
resident of Sulaimania, said he had been introduced by 
some of his friends to the Iranian regime's officers based in 
the city of Sulaimania. He said his first meeting took place in 
Hotel Mihman, in the city of Sanandaj, with two of the 
Intelligence Ministry agents by the names of Majidi and 
Karimi. They gave him 300 dollars and asked his to 
introduce to them Arab and Kurds living in Sulaimania and 
other cities.
Another agent by the name of Mansour Nasrollah Haidar 
said one of his acquaintances had made the suggestion to 
him to cooperate with the Iranian regime's Intelligence 
Ministry. ]
The third agent by the name of Mahmoud Mostafa Ahmad 
said he had accepted to cooperate with the Iranian regime's 
Intelligence Ministry because of his deplorable economic 
conditions. He went to Sanandaj and met with two agents of 
the Intelligence Ministry by the names of Karimi and Majidi 
who ordered him to reconnoiter different districts in 
Baghdad and gave him 900 dollars to buy a car.
Another agent by the name of Khazir Abbas, revealed that 
the clerical regime had trained him for a month to plant 
bombs, mount missiles and set timers. He received these 
training in the city of Halabjeh. Three agents of the 
Intelligence Ministry, by the names of Davoud, Karim and 
Hamzeh oversaw these training courses. He also revealed 
that he had planted a bomb in a crowded and busy district of 
Baghdad by the name of Shorejeh.
The agents' contact person with the Intelligence Ministry 
was called Ahmad. He was assigned by an Intelligence 
Ministry agent by the name of Ahmadi to carry out a terrorist 
attack against the Mojahedin base camps. He and two other 
terrorists were supposed to launch missiles against the 
Mojahedin's Camp Ashraf, but were arrested before carrying 
out their operation.
========================================
========================================
Editorial:
Radio Europe,John,U.K.Citizen,EagleEye, Allatti2d, 
ItalianGuy,Spy,Holland//Italy and others :"We thank you for 
your work and support."

Points taken. So long as that's the case, at least from your 
point of you! I'd just rather things not go unsaid, I'd prefer 
to just come out and say so, and for others to do the same, if 
something doesn't seem right. I hope, that you say what you mean 
about speaking your mind, and not just you, others too. It's 
just seems unusually quiet. 

For instance 1,000 U.S. troops are now being deployed on the 
ground in Afghanistan with more soon to follow, along with 
goodness knows how many U.S. special operatives. None of your 
compatriots have mentioned that yet, am I missing something 
here? It's a distinct possibility some of them won't make it 
back. This is where things get really serious, the ground war! 
The Taliban and their Ilk, this is their thing, guerilla 
warfare, that's what they train for. Not open combat on the 
battlefield. The Soviets found that out. I don't doubt for one 
second the resolve and effectiveness of U.S. troops. Things, so 
far, have gone better than most would have hoped for, and in 
such a brief time. I don't know EagleEye!, I thought at least 
someone would have mentioned it by now, that's all. I thought 
people would be cheering the troops on! Maybe I'm way of line 
here, maybe I've misjudged or have missed something here. Any 
opportunity I've got I've mentioned UK troops and their role in 
this, which is frankly miniscule in comparison to the American 
effort. Sure, there are SAS types there fighting alongside the 
U.S. Delta force, the Royal Air Force has been prominant in 
refuelling and transporting roles that are aiding the U.S.A.F., 
but that's about it. I'll leave it there, but do reply should 
you wish to, on any of the above.

O.K...Red Necks...not sure about euro in general, but the 
British Isles, we get a lot more of your U.S. programming, 
cinema, T.V. movies, and the U.S. culture in general than you 
realise. I don't think the avarage American is made aware of 
just how much Hollywood and the big U.S. T.V. networks material 
is purchased by our T.V. broadcasters. Whether the U.S. is doing 
the hard sell or the U.K. is doing the hard buy, I just don't 
know. The upshot is were just as likely for instance to be able 
to see..Dan Rather, Nightline and such like as you are. Some 
British viewer, at least at some time, would I'd imagine have 
heard the term Red Neck. I don't know if that answers that 
question.

The trouble with you EagleEye, is that I agree with too much of 
what you say about why this war has to be fought, and the way of 
going about doing that...it's annoying frankly...I can't even 
argue with you! :-)      

I think thats because we're just at the threshold of entering 
this house---.

I wasn't playing the sympathy vote...really! It's just certain 
things do matter to me, one of those being, to have a mix of 
opinions, some of which I just havn't heard of late, as much as 
I've recalled hearing before. Still...thank you kind sir, for 
your words...it goes without saying I also value your opinions 
equally highly!.

Yes I AM planning a flight,and I'll act however I damn well want 
to!(LOL!!!)I remember you makeing threats to me about the FBI 
too,and strange.........haven't seen them yet!(LOL!!!)have you?

I REALLY didn't want to go here,but some things bugged me 
when you came on this board(ask Ashraf about my 
suspicious nature).
Oddly enough--U.K. Voices appeared not long after you did.
I found that "interesting".
I know I'm risking the wraft of this boards participants but 
this "question" you asked got be wonderin'.
You wouldn't be "messin"--would ya?

The Christian Science Monitor 1983 03 24 

Opinion and Commentary; Pg. 23 

Friction in the Middle East 

-BY- Joseph C. Harsch 

The commandant of the United States Marine Corps asserted to the 
US Secretary of Defense in a formal letter dated March 14, then 
made public on March 17, that his men on duty in Lebanon have 
been persistently ''harassed, endangered, and degraded'' by 
Israeli troops. 

The government of the US gave a copy of the letter to the 
Israeli government, which replied on March 18 recognizing that 
there has been friction between US and Israeli forces in Lebanon 
but blaming it on the alleged refusal of US forces in the area 
to permit liaison between the two forces. 

Two days later the commander of the US Marine force in Lebanon 
stated publicly that Israeli forces have been endangering both 
US Marines and local civilians by ''gross lack of fire 
discipline.'' 

These episodes are the latest surface manifestation of friction 
which has persisted in Lebanon between Israeli and US forces 
almost from the beginning of the US military presence there last 
September. 

The record shows a series of incidents in early January (Jan. 5, 
6, 8, 11, and 17). In all of these, Israeli forces attempted to 
pursue Palestinians who had entered American lines to escape. In 
each case the Marines refused to permit the Israelis to go 
through their lines. 

On Jan. 21 there was another incident when the marines reported 
that an Israeli jeep ''nudged'' an American officer and Israeli 
tanks pushed through barbed wire marking the boundary of the 
marines' position. On Jan. 25 the Pentagon in Washington said it 
was making an ''analysis'' of the earlier incidents. 

On Feb. 2 occurred the most dramatic and widely reported 
incident. An Israeli tank attempted to push through a US Marine 
roadblock. US Marine Capt. Charles B. Johnson loaded his 
revolver, jumped up on the Israeli tank, and stated that they 
would pass ''only over my dead body.'' His action was commended 
by President Reagan. 

On Feb. 5 unnamed ''leaders'' at the Pentagon were quoted as 
charging that Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon (since 
replaced) had been pursuing a policy of trying to ''discredit'' 
the international peacekeeping force in Lebanon. 

On Feb. 10 US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger rejected an 
Israeli proposal for sharing information gained by Israel during 
its 1982 fighting in Lebanon. Secretary Weinberger stated that 
the conditions attached by the Israelis to the deal were 
unacceptable. One condition was that the US must not pass along 
the information to its NATO allies. (Israel dropped the 
conditions on March 21.) 

On Feb. 27 President Reagan talked about the possibility of US 
armed forces protecting Israel's northern frontier. The Israeli 
government immediately rejected the idea. 

Apparently there were further incidents during the first and 
second weeks of March although the accounts of these have not 
yet been reported in detail. 

Whatever they were caused Gen. Robert H. Barrow, commandant of 
the US Marine Corps, to state in his letter that ''it is time 
for firm and strong action to demonstrate to the Israelis that a 
role as a peacekeeper does not presume weakness.'' 

All of this points up a conflict of interest opening between the 
US and Israel. The US has sent its troops into Lebanon not to 
support and strengthen Israel's position in Lebanon, but to 
support and sustain the government of Lebanon in its own effort 
to regain control over its entire territory. US Marines are not 
there to help Israeli forces run down escaping Palestinians but 
to protect Lebanon and Lebanese from violence from all 
outsiders. US policy is not supporting Israel in its desire to 
maintain a continuing military presence in southern Lebanon. It 
is doing what it can through diplomacy and persuasion to get the 
Israelis out of Lebanon entirely and permanently. 

Add to the above that the President of the United States, like 
all his predecessors since the 1967 war, favors the withdrawal 
of Israeli forces from territories occupied by Israel since that 
war, including the West Bank of Palestine. 

Right now is the moment of decision on whether US presidential 
policy will prevail and the Palestinians will be allowed to have 
a homeland of their own in Palestine or whether Mr. Begin will 
prevail and proceed to the annexation of the occupied 
territories. 

The President is pursuing a policy which would show the US as a 
fair intermediary between Israel and the Arabs. Mr. Begin is 
pursuing a policy which would give Israel sovereignty over all 
of Palestine, dominion over a sullen and irreconcilable Arab 
population, and endless hostility between itself and the rest of 
the Arab world. 

The two policies are incompatible. The incompatibility is 
showing along the margin in Lebanon where Israeli forces are 
supporting one policy and the US Marines a contrary policy. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

...guess that means no polite knock..knock..then eh,...more 
likely the use of those heavy door busters S.W.A.T. teams use I 
suspect...hmmmm..

"...guess that means no polite knock..knock..then eh,...more 
likely the use of those heavy door busters S.W.A.T. teams 
use I 
suspect...hmmmm.."

I guess I missed the message of you're reply.

I'm still waiting for the car bombs and the FBI,CIA,and all the 
tough boys Spy and EagleTurd promised me.And with that I can 
probably expect some childish symbols from Spy like:
 :( Osama's dog....sum dead talibanz
 A---is for Osama's dog andrew
 B---is foer ummmm......a.....ummmmmm

Spy, when I said mix of opinions, I didn't want to go there 
either, but I was talking specifically about snake~~eyes, 
Justice and Justice U.S.A. As an observation, they use the board 
in a different way. If I may be so bold they, not always, but 
generally use the board to express their feelings 'vociferously' 
at that particular point in time, I just don't see that as much 
any more, that's what I meant. I really did NOT want to name, 
names. I hope they'll forgive me.

Get back to me...

"And oi - Italian Guy, yeah you!  You don't know me yet but you 
                      can fuck right off you little piecce of 
greasy shit!"
       
   Boy,that was some funny shit!!!LOL!!

you little piecce of greasy shit!" LOL!!!

Take you're pick!...I wasn't quite sure what you meant either!..

Variant1: that everbody's coming onto the board, ie; this board

Variant2: U.S. troops going in on the ground in Afghanistan in a 
big rather(as stated in my previous post) rather than a small way

Get back to again..

re:From: Spy 
To: U.K.Citizen 
Subject: "mix of opinions" 
Date: Mon Nov 26 21:37:08 2001 

I know I'm risking the wraft of this boards participants but 
you wouldn't be doing uk voices & wally boy;Would You ?
I'as just wonderin' if ya got us good---(therory kind of thing)

You're cleaver enough:-)

Are you really Elmer Fudd?I know I'm risking the wraft?

From my point of view interesting in one way , as well as 
mortifying, in another. No sooner had I expressed my solidarity 
with EagleEye when not long after (was it a day or two, a 
week..I'd have to check), U.K.Voices entered the scene. He set 
about almost deliberately trying to undo the cordially and 
support I'd expressed at the time. I recall mentioning to 
EagleEye not to hold back comments because I was from an allied 
nation, ie; Britain. Not everybody just because there from an 
allied nation would necassarily hold my supportive view of the 
postion America found itself in after September's surprise 
attacks. However, I knew that I represented the vast majority of 
public opion in support of the U.S. I could see how it looked, 
and I'm glad you've raised the issue, because some suspicion may 
have been at the back of your mind,...I would have been at the 
back of mine.

Mortifying, because it was an unpleasant coincidence. Aside from 
the obvous handle U.K.Voices, I knew he was British from the way 
he wrote and the refernces he used...

Your thoughts? 

also drink more--it's cheap meds for you.
Plus--most 7-11's open all night.

you got all the connections boy---

"From: Walter 
To: EaglePuss 
Date: Mon Nov 26 21:38:01 2001 
Message:
Yes I AM planning a flight,and I'll act however I damn well want 
to!(LOL!!!)I remember you makeing threats to me about the FBI 
too,and strange.........haven't seen them yet!(LOL!!!)have you?"

Waldo ... I was certain the Thorazine would help - yet now you 
are not only confusing us, your own online personalities, but 
you can no longer differentiate me from John and Spy.  I dont 
recall ever mentioning that you were to be concerned with the 
FBI, though for some of your earlier commentary, It wouldnt piss 
me off if they were to pay you an unlikely visit.  


As a conservative tax despising US citizen, 2002 is going to be 
my year of NO WHINING about taxation ..... I can only hope it 
will go to more BLU-82's, Soldiers, airplanes, and FBI 
salaries/manpower[agent Scully's too].... just so you "might" 
get a visit.  So hows your new entertainment DVD empire coming 
along?  Ya know - they nailed Capone for tax evasion.

Always the shit talker!LOL!!! Its been 11 days,and no 
FBI,CIA,or....clicking noises! Looking forward to meeting you if 
you can borrow your sister's bike!

slow news day for me:-)

You know the name---look up the number.

Spy's raised some issues regarding my identity, that's O.K. 
Shall hopeflly clear this up, eventually. I was wondering, did 
my last post to you offend (I (mispelt again..meant A little 
quiet), Sorry not a fast typer, plenty of typos this evening!

You know,you've never posted your name,boo boo.

This has been an interesting evening, think you'd agree, should 
provide a few laughs for some others no doubt.

re: your post re: "seems unusually quiet"

What DID you mean, by the way?

Time for the bi-weekly back wax and unibrow pluck.

As far as the Italian guy being a "greasy" whatever ...... beats 
the hell out of being a "three days of bad road on camel back, 
no bathing stinking ARAB shit" as yourself.... but to each his 
own.

oink 

Hey U.K.,
I thought I might be able to help shed just a little light on 
why my buddy snake-eyes uses the board the way she...yes, 
she...does.  She has a lot of fear in her life right now...it 
all began on 9/11.  This board is a place where she can express 
her feelings "vociferously" without being afraid of hurting 
anyone's feelings (something she worries about way too much).  I 
encouraged her to come here for exactly that purpose...I hope 
you all don't mind.  She really needs the room to vent 
occasionally with a nephew sailing around out there somewhere, 2 
nieces (one of whom wants to be a Navy pilot, and a daughter who 
just had a cancerous tumor removed from her spine...like I 
said...a whole lotta fear.  She hasn't slept well for months 
now...since 9/11, so I hope you'll make allowances for her, and 
allow her to continue to come here and be emboldened by the 
likes of Eagle-Eye and Spy.

Arab?LOL!!!! Who said I was an Arab? 
Oh yes............as for Capone.....they were grasping for 
anything they could to get him into custody......
Now,if you could only find out who I am...............you could 
get a reward! Be sure to spell your name right though.....so they 
know who to send the check to.............LOL!!!

Nice to see you all again.  I've been away a bit lately.  Spent 
5 days in a hospital...don't ever get sick near Conway, 
AR...they will NOT let you go until they kill you or you walk 
out.  Went in for a hysterectomy...they gave me a minor heart 
attack...luckily no major damage.  As soon as they let me go, I 
headed for the woods again...just got home yesterday.

I'm glad to see you're all still here...I kinda missed you 
all...but, I'm gonna try to NOT keep up with this board 
everyday...can you spell addiction?  Anyhow, keep up the good 
work.

Good ta hear it!

It seemed at that point you wondered why there wasn't more 
of a celebration for our victories.----I was sugesting that the 
American Public and others realizies that this is just a start 
of a long war.

"-- we're just at the threshold of entering 
this house---."

Hey Radio Europe, that was a very good read for me on 
theology. Even though love is made out to be such a human 
emotion, I don't know how anyone can possibly dream of a 
love greater than that of God for his children. Thanks again 
:-). 

Allatti2d, thank you for the kind words. I did not mean to 
sound accusatory at all. I think, in fact, that I might have been 
a little too quick to defend father Guido. I am glad that he 
practices what he preaches, but I didn't see any need for 
attacks on John and Eagle, who meant very well in their 
communications with him. No doubt he means well. I thank 
you for your appreciation of me as another human being. I 
certainly appreciate you as a sister in faith. There really is no 
reason why mankind should not be together as a family. 
God help us all. 

Father Guido - I do appreciate your coming here and your 
spiritual kickstart. I think, as you may see now the tenuous 
communication on this site makes it more costly to accuse 
and belittle another. In comparison, your quickness to judge 
a couple people who mean very well was not harsh, but 
considering the source - it was disconcerting. I hope to see 
you on the other side too though :-) By the Grace of God!

Oh shoot, I almost forgot to voice my support for our bravest 
over in Afghanistan! Keep praying for our soldiers. This is 
going to be a tough one (it might actually take more than a 
month!). 

UK Citizen, it's good to hear from you. I don't think the 
people's responses changed due to your presence, but 
because of the time passing and the constant news and the 
emotional effort it takes to respond to some things. I won't 
hold back, I'm just getting warmed up -spiritually anyhow- 
I'm like a car with a five speed transmission and I only have 
the 1st and 5th gear! By the way, there's no need to be so 
self-effacing! You're as valuable as the rest of us! :-). 

Glory!

Missin', Hi..err..regarding snake~~eyes I obviously never 
realised, cue great embarrasment...I can't apologise to her 
enough! Sorry that came over really badly, but I did not wish to 
name names in the first place to be honest, but there we go. 
Sorry, this has been strange night! I still however hold to 
those sentiments I expressed however about hearing more from 
everyone. I guess I was being, I suppose, over-senstitive as to 
my possible impact on this board. I was attempted to express the 
very opposite of what you were suggesting, that it would be nice 
to read the posts of those that, rightly or wrongly, it seemed 
were more prevelant before I joined. But people use the board in 
different ways. Sorry we had to be introduced to each other in 
circumstances such as this..no offence was intented. 

Missin', you in a funny way, have expressed exactly the point I 
was trying to put across to EagleEye. Nobody..of course needs to 
ask me for allowances to be on the board. I had no intention 
whatsoever of causing in offense to anybody, which of course 
includes snake~~eyes and your good self. 

If this reply is not satisfactory, in respect to you and 
snake~~eyes as shall leave this board and not return. This reply 
HAS to truly be satisfactory to you.

I am a man of my word madam, and I shall await your reply.   

For what it's worth, as regarding U.S. troops it was simply 
feeling of 'getting behind the troops' rather than 'glorying in 
victories' so to speak. I'm sure at some deep level the American 
people are of course behind their troops. Anyway I've obviously, 
without meaning to of course, offended some people quite 
unintentionaly. I was going to wait for Missin's reply but I 
think it's best I say my good-byes now. I wish you and the 
American people all the best in the times ahead, I know you'll 
get the job done, America always does, same sentiments apply to 
all the good people on this board.

Tonight was not very pleasant. I don't intend to repeat a night 
such as this.

All the best.

U.K.Citizen.

Hey Spy!Maybe if Jesus ever decides to post here,you can accuse 
him of being Satan!

Hello, I am just wondering if you might settle down and 
actually dicide to converse with some of the people in here. 
Particularly, I wouldn't mind a response. I have been asking 
over and over why you keep writing gibberish and think it 
has content. There may have been a few sentences of value 
in the myriad pages you posted on this website...I can't at 
the moment think of one, but still I'd like to know what your 
take on the situation really is (without the useless insults 
and ignorant shoutings). Do you have any idea of your own 
government's involvement in this war against terrorists? 
Britain lost a lot of its citizens too you know...doesn't that 
make you at least a little upset? I would be content to lump 
you in as a terrorist yourself for some of the things you've 
said (but then that would be ignorant and presumptuous of 
me). 

Understanding that you are a computer scientist, I do not 
expect you to be able to communicate with human beings. I 
have a friend who is fried at the end of the day having to 
enter in code all the time. As a chemist, I am in the same 
boat of not being the best at communication. Us techies are 
not the best trained for that. Seriously though, I would like to 
know how old you are. Maybe your one of the few teenagers 
who visits this site. I'd really like to know because I thought I 
might have been the youngest. 

Well, I just want a clue as to whether or not you are actually 
reading anything anyone else has to say. If you read this, 
please reply with at least a "Yeah I read that post you 
American Pansy!" Or whatever. I won't be too offended as 
long as I know you read.

To everyone else. Sorry I missed the rantings last night! I 
didn't get here in time for the archiving. See you all later!

Saw a piece about those caves tonight. These are not "caves",
they may have started as natural caves but are no longer.
Some three levels deep, fairly complex and how the hell would
you attack them? Osamas boys have been working on them for years
now and even the "bunker busters" wont affect them. They have
them loaded with supplies and ammo, even with electric to some.
 With our marines joining Special Forces on the ground now, 
along with SAS and CIA and most of the country taken from the
taliban, rather than smoke them out, maybe cut off all supply
lines and wait them out may do us well. How many weeks of the
occasional bomb blast and constant Mega Death music can any
true Muslim extremest stand. Bring by Puff the Magic Dragon
a couple times a day straffing the hillside while blasting
Ozzys "Crazy Train", but basically, wait them out. They are
waiting for us right now and I hope we dont fall for what
appears to me, a trap.
 In this piece I saw they asked a former Soviet commander who
fought in this same area how you defeat the enemy up in the
caves, his answer was "you dont".
 Patience, all good things come to those who wait! Snakes
come out when they are hungry then its our choice, catch the
snakes or kill the snakes.

You'll never know--.

Whoa, Brother!  You didn't offend me in any way, shape, or 
form!  I was merely trying to help you understand a poster who 
you might have found enigmatic, in an attempt to make YOU more 
comfortable here.  Please don't leave...I'm flabbergasted that 
you've misunderstood me so badly.  You are one of the very 
reasons I like to come here...it's good to know what's happening 
in the world of allies.

One thing that I think I've tried to convey here all along is 
that there is room in this world for everyone who is willing to 
live in peace.  The only ones I don't mind putting a little 
squeeze on are the obvious assholes like Walter who need a 
life...or maybe just a better one.

Please say you'll stay...I've been downloading some music, and 
I'm gonna feel awful if I didn't get back in time to keep you 
from abandoning ship.

I forgive you,you probably still think you're having hot 
flashes.

Hello, I think I'm starting to understand more of what you're 
upset about. Yes, America is about freedom. This country 
prides itself on the rights of its people, so I don't know if all 
of the stuff being done is bad. However, I do agree that 
people might be going overboard in self-defense. 
Personally, I don't mind living too much with a little bit of risk. 
However, If I had children, I would probably feel differently 
and would mind much less that our government wants to 
wiretap everybody. I think Bush is getting very gung ho about 
this war, but think about it - how must it feel to have that kind 
of support? He's probably just testing the water - the natural 
order of things. Eventually, he'll do something unpopular 
enough that people equally like and dislike him. Personally, 
I think he is a very well meaning individual and is becoming 
a better leader. I didn't vote for him, but I'm glad he was 
elected. He still creeps me out whenever he uses the term 
'evildoers' just sounds creepy. 

Anyhow, would I be wrong in guessing that you, if you aren't 
a Christian, at least have an ideological respect for Jesus? 
I've known a lot of believers who understand the fact that 
most professing Christians these days probably would hate 
Jesus for rebuking their lifestyles. Just a thought. 

Anyhow, how are the meds workin?

Since you aren't the only jerk we've had visit for awhile before 
moving on.

You sure they didn't take that crap out of you to keep the 
defective child population down?Check the jar.

I have NO clue what Walter's problem is...I just can't 
appreciate his style of dealing with it.

By the way, I'm downloading Faith Hill's "There will come a Day-
American Heroes Tribute"  If y'all haven't heard it, I encourage 
you to take a listen.  

"Arab?LOL!!!! Who said I was an Arab?"

LOL!!!!Uh,you did ya freakin hyena.

Hey there Missin'. Walter has a very hard time dealing with 
things. He usually resorts to very derisive comments, mostly 
to get a point across (a practice I can't stand). I got really 
mad at first when he came in laughing about the world trade 
center bombing (though he later said he didn't mean it), and 
I yelled and insulted back. He said he was sorry once, so I 
forgave him. I think he has something to say, but has been 
having trouble saying it nicely. I don't know, I could be 
completely wrong in giving him the benefit of doubt, but I 
know he's smart enough to add something to the 
conversation (after all the crap is overwith). Most of the 
others dismiss him, which is understandable, but I think 
there's more to gain here somehow...Oh, he said once that 
he had lost his ritalin when he was apologizing for 
something he said, so that's where the medication 
comments come from. Nice to see you back here - I hope 
you are on the road to a rapid recovery. That's a biggie. 
EagleEye might be able to offer you a slight bit of solidarity 
;-) (right bud?). 

God bless!

Uh,not in one of my posts did I say I was an Arab.Find it.Talk 
about missing medication!LOL! Some additional help:
Hooked On Phonics
My Pretty Pony
A Dictionary
Weekly Reader (for current events)

That's a hell of a thing to do. Such a personal attack from 
one small insult. Calm down! You don't consider yourself to 
be acting like a jerk? I do, but I still think you are a valuable 
human being. Have a little respect.

Its a damn shame the docs let your mums slip through the cracks 
or you through hers. Dont listen to the dog next door no matter
what he tells you to do.
 What happened to the right issues bwah?

"I have been asking over and over why you keep writing gibberish 
and think it has content."

He's just pissed cuz he can no longer get a work visa thanks to 
the great George W. Bush - and has to work for UK wages vs. 
vastly superior American tech salaries - either that or he's 
still bitter from his dot.bomb contract flame out during the end 
of Bill "is that cigar lit" Clinton's administration.

Noah ... dont bother asking - the zero known as UK Vomit hasnt a 
clue as to why he's here - nor why he's on earth.

I'm fit as a fiddle, Thanks!  Spent the weekend recuperating by 
redecorating my honey's office...complete with colorwashing the 
walls to look like calfskin leather.  Can't keep a good woman 
down, ya know!

I appreciate the run-down on Walter...I'll be watching with you 
for any possible pearls of wisdom amid the garbage he's been 
spewing.

What kind of solidarity, Eagle-Eye?  You have a run-in with a 
cardiologist too?

The Ritalin post was not mine.Contrary to popular belief,I am 
not on any medication.

If you feel the need to bring my name up in every one of your 
posts,I'll be attacking you until the day you stop posting 
here.Feel free!I'm game.

I think someone using your identity may have insinuated that 
you were an Arab. I don't remember whether or not you 
mentioned your ethnicity (not that it matters), but did you say 
that you were Japanese? I'm probably just confusing it while 
you were talking about the internment camps. No need to 
reply, I'm just curious. Why all the belligerence? Is there any 
other way to get your point across? I am assuming you have 
one.

Was when Bill Clinton gave us the line repeatedly about how hard 
he was working - he had never worked harder on his life to come 
up with a solution to this .. to that ... to the other ... yet 
come to find out the 50+ yr old man was doinking a 19 year 
airhead.  The stain on her dress - thats what creeps me out.

Charlie Tree creeps me out worse.

Both now missin' reproductive capabilities.

Shoot, I'm exhausted again.
Eagle, I got a good laugh from your thoughts on UK 
Voiceless. I never thought about the dot.com failure 
bitterness. Oh well, I'll see if all I get is more drivel...Thanks 
for the laughs. 

Walter - Hmm, I don't know who you are because of all the 
other posts by people claiming to be you. I'll stop with the 
medication stuff though - but now you have no excuse for 
your insanity. (I don't have one for mine either...lack of sleep 
maybe). 

If you didn't want me to reply,why are you asking me 
questions?LOL!
 No,I'm not Japanese.
 When people don't act belligerent to me,I won't act that way to 
them.Feel free to take a look to posts to 
You,Allatti2d,Ashraf,and U.K.Citizen for proof.
 Sorry,but I thought calling me Walter the not-Arab was funny as 
hell!LOL!(Jesus!Will he EVER stop with that AOL newbie crap?)

I'm going insane!!! It's time to sleep, but I've enjoyed reading 
and writing...'rithmatic....recess. Ahh regression back to 
grade school. 'twas much simpler then, all I had to do was 
give my lunch money to a bully who I could have beat up with 
one hand. Fun to be a simpleton. They don't make 'em like 
they used to. I stare and stutter at screens and shutters, 
woe when my house falls down. I hope everyone else 
sleeps more than I do. FRRRRRRREEEEDOMMMMMM!!!

g'night

"It was another American girl,wanting some strong Muslim sex.
Your wives and girlfriends come to us when they want someone 
that 
knows how to get it up,and keep it up!
 Its OK,they'll be back........to their Limp existance with you!
See ya later,Noodle Boy!"

A muslim adulterer ..... quite interesting. Alas ..... you had 
also posted that you were glad to see americans die in WTC, and 
a proclaimed Muslim, here in the USA spinning the wheel of Uncle 
Sam's fortune bilking the system...... simple dedution makes you 
Arab .... or at least pretending to play one online.  But like 
everything youve posted so far - its all bullshit.

Night, Fellas. I'm crashing too.

the fun begins?  Oh well ... All the best.

Since when did all the Muslims become Arab?
And by the way.....I laughed my ass off when I posted that......I 
knew that that post would be the one to start the ball 
rolling....it's STILL funny!LOL!!!

Hey Missin'..  I missed Missin'   I hope you're O'K.  I wondered 
and wondered, where's Missin'?

Let me try to put Walter into perspective for you.  He really is 
truly unbalanced.  He has no clue how seriously mentally ill he 
is - As many like he, do not.  I feel sorry for him.  I ignore 
him and he mostly does not challenge me.  Hell few do. What's 
that about?

If folks simply ignore him he will leave and practice his 
irrational rants elsewhere.  We're not in position to help him.  
Hopefully someone will one day before...

I suspect the authorities have checked on him and found him to 
be as I have stated and determined locking him up serves little 
purpose.

Please ignore this poor man.  He really will go find another 
vent for his displaced anger.

John
E...

John Boy....
                 You did ask and I did deliver, so what about 
you???? Your next 
                 message "To ALL" was to take away the rights of 
others was it 
                not? 

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/11/26/phil.hostag
e/index.html 

Certainly this too is the fault of George W. Bush's Enviro 
policy ... right?



MANILA, Philippines (CNN) -- Muslim separatist rebels have 
abducted scores of civilians in the southern city of Zamboanga 
and are using them as human shields against ground and air 
attacks by Philippine troops. 

The rebels, belonging to a disgruntled faction of the Moro 
National Liberation Front (MNLF), have begun moving out of a 
goverment office in Cabatangan with their hostages in tow. 

Thanks! XXXX

Life is so short so make the rest of your life worthy and useful 
to other people and especially dont forget to pray to Allah 
(s.w.t).As time goes on a lot of things happen and sometimes the 
worst thing is blame to those not responsible,like what happen 
to the New York and other places that is being assault by the 
terrorist.They blame the Taliban or the muslim people but they 
can't deny the fact the they are losser. George W. Bush is the 
worst person in the whole UNIVERSE. As we all no the worst 
people go to HELL.....They are the losser in fighting with the 
Taliban people..........BUsh go to hellllllllllllllll

The Philippine Government is the government that is full of 
liar peole especially the president. I thaugt at first she's 
okey but Im so disappointed. I taught that she will up bring the 
peole of Mindanao but shes like aGeorge Bush who is the worst 
person in the world.She is so kind with the another country but 
she did not realize that the Philippine ARMY are all losser in 
every fighting in MIndanao.Accept the reaity that you are all 
losser a lot of family are suffering because of your stupid plan 
that you think is the better solution. Well you are all 
wrong.WHY YOU DONT WANT GIVE THE LAND OF THE MOROS.I can't say 
Independence because since then we are not under by he 
government of the terrorist Americans.

First of all, the word you are looking for is "LOSER" not 
Losser.  I'm not even going to attempt to explain to you two 
just how wrong you are...I'm not sure you've the intelligence to 
understand it.

But, if you think WE and Bush are the losers?  Tell it to the 
Talibaners that have been executed in the streets of Kabul by 
the Northern Alliance according to Muslim law...and the ones 
that have surrendered instead. 

Hey John,
Thanks for the welcome home.  It's good to see you're still 
hanging your hat here!  Where's Simon?  You seen him lately?  I 
go Missin' a lot, my friend...hence the name.  Usually my times 
away mysteriously coincide with Bass Tournaments...but, this is 
off season for that.  I'm spending lots of time in the woods 
this fall, and loving it.  I figure cabin fever is something I 
should delay as long as possible.

Talk to you later!
Missin'

Please be advised posters utilyzing differing handles 
like "Flair" and "Jihan" are most assuredly the same individual 
who also posts under the name we all know so well.  This 
unbalanced individual's need to cause the turmoil is the 
Mephistophelian nourishment he thrives on.  Why feed him by 
recognizing his existance.  I prefer to read less and post less 
frequent than respond to an obvious psychotic seeking only to 
rile.

Have a great day all.  And where is Simon?

John
E...

U.K. Citizen, I expect you to get your EuroTush back here 
posthaste and continue to contribute to the board (or at least 
send me another email!).  I am not often available to come here 
as much as I'd like, and sometimes I miss a day or two of 
reading and posting.  After I received your email this morning, 
I became concerned and came here directly to read the board.  I 
honestly think there was a misunderstanding somewhere along the 
line, and I hope you will re-read and reconsider.  Your posts 
here are among the ones most worthy of reading and considering, 
and, like Missin, your posts are among those that gave me reason 
to stick around here in the first place.

Noah, you are the king of free association!  Sometimes I wonder 
if you've already fallen asleep when you post exhausted! :)  I 
always look forward to your thoughts.

Missin, welcome back, my friend.  We are found out -- you let 
the 'cat' out of the bag! :)  Yes, Snake~~Eyes and Missin and I 
are all females.  I'm glad you're okay post-op, Missin -- I'll 
be sure to warn the bass that you haven't slowed down any!  It's 
sometimes a little challenging to hold up this fort of 
testosterone all by myself!  (By the way... just a day or two 
ago, EagleEye had posted that he was recovering from the Big 
Snip, which was why he felt solidarity with you, in case you 
missed his little informative post to you.)  As a personal note, 
I'd really like to see pictures of the faux-leather walls you 
painted!  Can you post some elsewhere?  Thanks!  As usual, I've 
been Missin you.

P.S. I haven't seen Simon around since you have, unfortunately.

John, I have a slight difference of opinion with regard to a few 
oddball posts that appear here on occasion.  I was able at one 
point to go back and read a few pages of posts from the time 
prior to my arrival (it took me a while realize that previous 
weeks were archived!  Talk about embarrassing...).  There are 
smatterings everywhere of people who fly in and leave their 
thoughts and fly out.  I usually don't respond to them unless 
they decide to stick around for a while, but in some cases even 
the ones that don't stick around sometimes provide food for 
thought and commentary.

Of course, it is possible that the voiceless one might be 
responsible for some vandalism here, but I do doubt it.  And I 
am still pretty convinced that voiceless and Walter are two 
separate people.  I see that Walter is really enjoying the mud 
wrestling with EagleEye, and I have to admit I'm enjoying it 
myself.  I've seen each of them get off a good one, but at this 
point I'd say EagleEye is ahead, points-wise! :)  I'd like to 
see Walter post some of his real thoughts, though.  Those things 
matter to me more.

Always enjoy reading what you have to input here, John.  Keep 
posting!

Ashraf, I hope you read this.  I want you to know that I 
received your last email which addressed many of the questions I 
had for you, and I very much appreciated it.  I need to have a 
good block of time to reply to your email (and of course ask you 
some more questions), which is why I have not yet done so.  
Please be patient, and know that I'll reply as soon as I'm 
able.  I was quite impressed with what you had to say.

I wanted to post this somewhat personal message on this board 
because I am in the process of learning about Ashraf and where 
he is coming from, and I think it opens up a whole new world for 
me with respect to seeing things through new eyes (as I love to 
do in life anyway).  All the intricacies of being human are both 
universal and incredibly unique, and the wonders never cease for 
me in considering humankind as a most incredible creation.  That 
probably makes no sense, but it's the best I can do on my first 
cup of coffee and very cold fingers! :)

Your strange fixation with limpness becomes so much more clear 
now.

From: EagleEye 
                                           To: Missin' 
                                         Subject: solidarity 
                                   Date: Tue Nov 27 00:52:47 2001 
                                            Message:

                           Both now missin' reproductive 
capabilities.

From: EagleEye 
                                     To: Strobg Muslim Sexers 

From: EagleEye 
                                      To: Waldo swine Jigalo 

the info you want re animals for afghan people--is at www.heifer.
org.------------this would be for refugees in pakistan until 
peace comes---somehow this posting is not going on the board!!!
             jackie

wondered how long it would take you to attempt to capitalize on 
that.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-attacks-eu-
extradition1127nov27.story?coll=la%2Dap%2Dtopnews%2Dheadlines

"In all 43 Council of Europe nations, any extradition order 
could be appealed to the European Court of Human Rights in 
Strasbourg, France, whose decisions are binding on all members."

<sarcasm_ON>

Ya know .. I really wish all you euro's would stop meddling in 
our affaris and trying to be the worlds police force. No Death 
Penalty ... BWAH!

you can send goats,pigs, chickens,rabbits, heifers or a share of
one animal or a flock if you cant afford to buy one yourself.
i liked reading the article on comparing religious views of
the Koran with Christian ideals---but fundamentalist views 
are similar to both faiths (unfortunately).does this remind you 
of being three yrs old when yr parents could never be wrong!!?

hi--i forgot Sheep!!  again-its at www.heifer.org.
                     PEACE     jackie

""Iraq is able to defend its self and rights and will not bow to 
threats but only to justice, and right." "

AND .........

""Iraq's U.N. Ambassador Mohammad al-Douri said that as long as 
sanctions remained, "We will not permit ... weapons inspectors. 
We have nothing to inspect." "

Hmmmmm ... let me get this straight, you have the weapons to 
defend yourself and will use them, but you have no weapons to 
inspect?

Allatti2d, Let me go ahead and wish you a Happy Birthday here 
and a day or two early.  Hugsssss Woman!  Regarding the pictures 
you requested...my Santa Honey has hinted that there will be a 
Sony Mavica in my stocking...so, I should be able to send you 
pics a-plenty.  Of course, most WILL feature Bass Du 
Jour...right before I let them go so I can catch them again.  
And, thanks for the recovery wishes...I knew they were lyin' 
about the 4 to 6 week thing...but, it sure is nice having 4 
weeks off with pay.

Eagle-Eye, you ROCK! Sure am glad we never had a chance to 
create another Walter for the world, aren't you? I hear getting 
older makes it more likely! ROFL! I'm with ya on the Iraqi thing 
too.  But, I never expected them to do anything but lie...heck, 
he kills off anyone who knows the truth about anything major 
over there...why would we expect him to tell us anything?

U.K. Citizen...I hope it's only cultural differences that 
allowed you to misconstrue my message.  Please post...You Brits 
are just too danged polite! Hugsssssssss!

Noah, I hope you'll forgive me...I must have been tired last 
night too...I didn't remember that you were "exhausted".  It's 
good to see you.  Been climbing lately?

Okay...off to interview with the company taking over my job, and 
do a little Christmas shopping.  See y'all this evening.

Here's a question for you from another message board that I 
check in on...If you could quarterback the War on Terrorism from 
this point on, how do you think it's gone so far, and what would 
you do next?

ALL ....repeat ALL foreign students here on VISA - good fucking 
bye.  Get an education in your wonderful country ...... its far 
superior anyways ... right?

Middle Eastern business persons here on VISA - get the fuck out 
now - then we'll re-review your paperwork and see for sure if 
you have a legit reason to be here.  If so - fine .... if you 
still want to come back. Racial Profiling ... so what ... 
happens to White Anglo Saxon Males here in USA everyday.  Kinda 
funny hearing African Americans on Talk Radio screaming for 
these people to be picked up and checked out - but thats another 
story.

USA Border closures immediately .......

Somalia, Iraq, Philipines, Hamas, Hezzbolah in that order. Ka 
Boooom.  Maybe something French will get blown up and those 
fuckers will eventually get off their asses and do something 
positive for the world for once.  Other than baaaaad attitude, 
what is their contribution been lately?  Peugot's?  a Bike race?

"you little piecce of greasy shit!" LOL!!!"

You are disgusting.

I'm crushed.

"some sentiments apply to all the good people on this board"
 
Oh, thank you, UK. Good bye.

Its really good to see you so angry.Everybody who isn't 
white---get the fuck out of America---we'll let you know if you 
can come back------that's funny as hell!(LOL!!)
Racial Profiling ... so what ... 
                happens to White Anglo Saxon Males here in USA 
everyday.-----Yeah........right.(once again LOL!)
USA Border closures immediately .......
Your views are not very new.........the Nazis did the same thing 
in the 1930's.I think it's great that you finally presented your 
real views on the board for all to see.

"They blame the Taliban or the muslim people but they 
can't deny the fact the they are losser. George W. Bush is the 
worst person in the whole UNIVERSE. "

As it looks like, the fact is that the taliban are the "losser".
I think the worst person might be... you.

Ya know .. I really wish all you euro's would stop meddling in 
                 our affaris

Affaris ------what is this word?

It could be a very colourful(----ooooh,look at the way he spelled 
it!U.K.Voices?LOL!!!)word meaning like................a trip to 
Africa to hunt elephants and a romantic interest.

"Its really good to see you so angry."

Angry ... moi'?  pretty avg run o' the mill stuff Jigalo.  Spy 
told us all about that "strong Muslem Sex" your so fond of .....

"Everybody who isn't 
white---get the fuck out of America---we'll let you know if you 
can come back------that's funny as hell!(LOL!!)"

I thought so toooo .... but I think if you wipe the shit out of 
your eyes and re-read I was rather specific that I only wanted 
the Middle Eastern ARAB types and other NON AMERICAN, "non-
citizens" to hit the friendly skys.  

"USA Border closures immediately .......
Your views are not very new.........the Nazis did the same thing 
in the 1930's.I think it's great that you finally presented your 
real views on the board for all to see."

I think its even greater that you've finally decided to bathe 
after removing your head from your anus and are just now coming 
to grips with actually being able to read something other than 
your own ill punctuated homosexual rantings ...... 

Had a great idea for you Walterd ..... being the enterprising 
sort that you are ..... Maybe you could offer to play your DVD 
of the WTC attacks as the in flight movie on your next trip to 
Mardi Gras to meet the "boyz", and offer to provide your 
sensational narration.

Your brains must be either on fire, hard drugs or both at the 
same time...

Pour on a little religious doctrine and there you go.

You're lost already, deadly confused...

Your posts bring a totally new meaning to the word 
"disturbed".

After undergoing the baffling ordeal of trying to read your 
posts, we can but conclude that you must be posting from a 
far-away country, where confusion rules and everything bad 
comes from a single person, commanding zombies of your 
kind, the way you're used to. 

And everything good comes from yeah, we know already.

Radio advises you to grow a brain, quicly, try to think for 
yourself and one day you may become a citizen of the world.


This was Radio Europe, from Europe.

We express our disgust with Walters' post.

Clearly he is a mental terrorist, and one without feeling 
whatsoever.

It is exactly this mentality and total lack of ethics on any level 
that makes these kind of psychopaths stand out.

We fully understand his opinions now...



Radio Europe, from Europe

You are most welcome, and you have all the time you need.. no 
rush..

And about your words not making any sense.. they make perfect 
sense.. In fact, what you are doing is considered in Islam to be 
of the greatest forms of worshiping, which is done through 
deeply thinking of Allah's creation.. Inevitably, it leads to 
the growth of your faith in Him.. Keep worshiping.. Keep 
thinking..

I'll answer whatever questions I can..

Peace..

O Muslim woman! Do not be-little the gift of any woman in 
your neighborhood, even if it s a goats hoof. (Al-Hadith ; 
Sahih-Bukhari & Sahih-Muslim) 

salaam,

Radio Europe

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful:

" Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and 
Christians, and Sabians, who ever believes in Allah and the last 
day and do righteous good deeds, shall have their reward with 
their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.. "

Surat Al-Baqara, Verse no.62..

Peace..

Thanx for ur above post, and the Hadith (saying of the Prophet 
Mohammed) may peace and prayers be upon him and Jesus..

Nevertheless, one doesnt need to be a Muslim to worship his 
Creator..

Peace..

NewsFromIran 
=============================
7:03:18 PM 
Moscow, Nov 27 - Russia said on Tuesday that a 
conference in Germany on the makeup of a new 
post-Taliban government should lead to the creation of a 
neutral Afghanistan that remains on good terms with all its 
neighbors.
The Russian Foreign Ministry also reaffirmed its opposition 
to the inclusion in the new administration of Taliban 
members "who have stained themselves through links to 
international terrorism and drug trafficking."

5:07:42 PM 
Tehran, Nov 27 - Iran on Tuesday opposed any deployment 
of multinational forces in the name of establishing security 
in Afghanistan.
"The presence of foreign military forces are contrary to the 
territorial integrity and independence of Afghanistan, which 
could lead to further complication of the situation and 
perturb the trend of return of peace to the war-ravaged 
country," foreign ministry spokesman Hamid-Reza Assefi 
said.
"The transitional Afghan government should take up the 
responsibility to establish security through the formation of a 
national police in Afghanistan," he added.
"Under no conditions should the fundamental and decisive 
role of the Afghan people in protecting their basic rights and 
their active participation in determining the country's fate be 
overlooked," Asefi said. 
The Iranian official also regretted the death of many civilians 
during the latest bombings of Mazar-i Sharif and called for 
the respect of international conventions on the rights of the 
prisoners of war. 

=================================
Editorial:
theE.S.D. finds humor in this;"... the rights of the prisoners of 
war." 

#1, Ely's Court
Over-against John Hay Library
66 College Street
Providence, R.I.,U.S.A.

BE THERE !!!

I am so sorry Missin'.  I know you haven't been around lately so 
I will explain myself.  I have multiple personalities and 
require medication.  I sometimes get real upset about things and 
when I forget to take my medicine I just lose it sometimes.  The 
doctor says I should be getting better soon as long as I keep 
taking my meds.  It is hard on my family because we are so poor 
and we can't always afford to buy my medication.  I pray 
everyday for myself and others and hope that all of this will go 
away someday.

Peace be with you,
Walter

Hey, thanks for the info. I bought my sponsored child in India 
a goat last year for Christmas and he liked it a lot. I'll check 
out the site when I get a chance. 

Allatti2d...I get a little too open when I'm exhausted. I just let 
the train coast and see what falls off. Glad to entertain :-). 

Walter, not that my opinion matters much to you, but I think 
you should start speaking with purpose rather than trying to 
correct all of EagleEye's spelling errors. I certainly don't take 
the time to spellcheck each of my posts, or fix typos for that 
matter. Avarice. Do you hear monkeys? 

Wait...I thought I heard a monkey. No, just the wind, but I 
sure wish I had a pet monkey. They're violent, but funny. 
Work is tooooo hard after vacation!! ***theraputic scream***. 

Ashraf, good to see you again, nice to have an open mind 
posting! Perhaps it is true that all who believe and do good 
works will find paradise - it'd save a lot of trouble. However, I 
don't think one can buy their way into heaven with good 
deeds. Human beings are just too imperfect. 

To Jihan Flair (same person)-Even though you cannot really 
speak english, I appreciate you trying. Unfortunately, what 
you wrote was filled with a very healthy dose of ignorance. If 
President Bush is the worst person in the world, I would 
suddenly be quite happy to go about my business and not 
have to worry about being attacked by people only slightly 
less ignorant and hateful than yourself. Come on...you have 
no Idea who Mr. Bush really is.  In fact, you have no idea 
what America really is... Hope you can understand this...surf 
the net for a while and learn before you leap.

Missin'- sorry I forgot to tell you that I was exhausted. I 
stopped posting as that sometime last week. When I first 
saw that you were going to a bass tournament, I was going 
to say that I play bass too! haha, anyway, I hope you have 
some good fishin'. I'm actually going climbing in about 10 
minutes. (fake climbing ya know...too cold to get outdoors). 

See y'all tonight.

Whoever mailed anthrax-laden letters to Washington likely is a 
male, a loner and not connected with the September 11 
terrorists, a top FBI profiler said Friday. 
Investigators believe they are dealing with a single suspect who 
fits a profile similar to serial bombers, like "Unabomber" 
Theodore Kaczynski. They also believe this person is not 
connected to those behind the September 11 attacks on New York 
and Washington, Fitzgerald said. 

Though FBI officials have previously said the letters may have 
come from a person not born in the United States, Fitzgerald 
said he believes otherwise. To him, the mailer appears to be "a 
lone male who doesn't have any direct connection to any foreign 
government." 

He also described the suspect as an "opportunist." 

"We think he reacted to the incidents of September 11 as sort of 
what he saw as his cover, to carry out some sort of plan he may 
have had in the back of his mind to mail this anthrax for 
whatever personal reason he may had, or whatever agenda," he 
said. 

The mailer also displayed some criminal sophistication to cover, 
or "dry clean," his true identity and intent, Fitzgerald said. 
For example, one letter misspelled the word "penicillin" 
as "penacillin," he noted. 

"The spelling of 'penicillin' may be a way for him to 'dumb 
down;' to make it seem like he's somebody other than he really 
is," Fitzgerald said. 

The three letters, which the FBI believes were written by the 
same person, were postmarked in the Trenton, New Jersey, area. 
The FBI believes the sender is familiar with the area because 
the return address was similar to the name of a Trenton-area 
school. 

The FBI is publicizing the personality profile, hoping it might 
jar someone's memory and lead to a suspect. 

55 Waterman Street (East side station)
Provi